Is College Worth The Cost? | Zero Hedge
Description: New schools are popping up. Some offer one year programs but no college degree. Good idea?

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The currency markets are forecasting something grim.

# Is College Worth The Cost?

Authored by Mike Shedlock via MishTalk,

New schools are popping up. Some offer one year programs but no college degree. Good idea?

Ben Carlson at Wealth of Common Sense is irked by the question: Is College Worth the Cost?

> Reddit co-founder Alexis Ohanian gave some advice to young people in a recent interview with the New York Times:

> "Do you really need to go to college? There is a huge student loan debt problem in this country. I think there’s going to need to be a drastic change in how these universities work. And I also think we’ve lambasted the trades for way too long. You can make six figures as a welder."

> These kinds of statements irk me, especially when they come from rich entrepreneurs. This line of thinking reeks of survivorship bias.

> Successful entrepreneurs must understand they’re the minority. Most businesses fail and most 18 year-olds don’t have what it takes to start, let alone run their own business. I certainly would have been lost at that age trying to make a go at it on my own.

> I get what Ohanian is trying to say here. There are plenty of problems with the higher education system. It’s too expensive. Most students aren’t given enough guidance in terms of how their preferred area of study will lead to actual employment or how much that employment will pay. Student loans can also be a huge burden after school for many.

> In many ways, much like personal finance, people are mostly on their own when it comes to figuring these things out, which is a shame.

> Are we really expecting 18 year-olds to perform a cost-benefit analysis on whether or not they should go to college or skip it altogether and go straight to the working world to save on the tuition costs? Better yet, how many adults perform a cost-benefit analysis when they purchase a new car or house? How many adults do you know who track their spending? Create a household budget? Pay down their debt every month? Save enough for retirement?

### One Year of ‘College’ With No Degree

Let's now consider One Year of ‘College’ With No Degree, But No Debt And a Job at the End.

> As a high-school senior in Hampton, Va., Aidan Cary applied last year to prestigious universities like Dartmouth, Vanderbilt and the University of Virginia.

> Then he clicked on the website for a one-year-old school called MissionU and quickly decided that’s where he wanted to go.

> Mr. Cary, 19 years old, is enrolled in a one-year, data-science program. He studies between 40 and 50 hours a week, visits high-tech, Bay Area companies as part of his education, and will pay the San Francisco-based school a percentage of his income for three years after he graduates.

> MissionU, which enrolled its first class in September, is part of new breed of institutions that bill themselves as college alternatives for the digital age. The schools—whose admission rates hover in the single digits—comparable to the Ivy League, according to the schools—offer a debt-free way to attain skills in hot areas and guaranteed apprenticeships with high-tech companies. Together those create a pipeline to well-paying high-tech jobs.

> What they lack is an accredited degree, the longtime entry ticket to a professional career, and the traditional trappings of college including a full liberal arts education.

> “The degree is dead. You need experience,” says the website for Praxis, a five-year-old digital school based in South Carolina.

### Stunningly Simple Choice

There is no choice here, at least for Mr. Cary. One would have to be a fool to turn down the opportunity.

There is no catch, but there is a problem. These schools get 10,000 applications for 50 spots. They will take the brightest of the brightest, knowing full well the kids can be placed in a high-paying job.

Everyone wins. Those accepted make a great salary after one year, and they finish school with no debt.

### Skip College and Go to Trade School

​Parents are stumped Why an Honors Student Wants to Skip College and Go to Trade School.

> Raelee Nicholson earns A’s in her honors classes at a public high school south of Pittsburgh and scored in the 88th percentile on her college boards.

> But instead of going to college, Ms. Nicholson hopes to attend a two-year technical program that will qualify her to work as a diesel mechanic. Her guidance counselor, two teachers and several other adults tell her she’s making a mistake.

> When she was 14, Raelee rebuilt a car with her older cousin. She doesn’t listen to those trying to dissuade her from her passion. “Diesel mechanics charge $80 an hour,” she says.

### Less Than Useless Guidance Counselor

Raelee should tell her guidance counselor to go to hell.

The counselor no doubt wants her to blow $80,000 or more on college, and walk away with some sort of degree in a field in which she has no interest.

With no interest in her major, she would be precisely qualified to work at Target or Walmart in a job she hated.

It's crazy.

### Irked

Let's return to Ben Carlson who is irked when entrepreneurs say skip college.

I think Reddit co-founder Alexis Ohanian was spot on in this important sense: It is beyond stupid to go to college if you do not want to, especially if you have other viable options.

Carlson asks "Are we really expecting 18 year-olds to perform a cost-benefit analysis on whether or not they should go to college or skip it altogether and go straight to the working world to save on the tuition costs?"

Fair enough. But if they cannot do that, then they also cannot figure out that going $80,000 in debt for a humanities degree is a bad idea.

Carlson and guidance counselors give kids horrendous advice and pressure them on the need to go to college, willy nilly, even when many of the kids are bright enough to figure things out on their own.

Worse yet, those who have no business going to college at all end up in college precisely because they cannot do what Carlson asks, and also because of incessant pressure to blow money on education.

I am a proponent of trade schools, of one year colleges with no degree (if you can get in), and also 4-year degrees in colleges overseas.

Some kids are bright enough to figure this out on their own. The rest need a bit of genuine guidance instead of a preach job on the need for a four-year college education.

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Croesus Sat, 04/14/2018 - 14:45 Permalink

Not most of the time.

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Ophiuchus Croesus Sat, 04/14/2018 - 14:50 Permalink

Wow! You are a fast reader.

Best Speed Reading Course 2018

https://www.speedreadinglounge.com/online-speed-reading-course

In reply to Nope by Croesus

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So Close Ophiuchus Sat, 04/14/2018 - 14:52 Permalink

Of course it is. How else will we continue to be served by social science, women's studies, and greek majors while dining out if the current system does not continue?

In reply to Wow! You are a fast reader. by Ophiuchus

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DillyDilly So Close Sat, 04/14/2018 - 15:05 Permalink

Major: BEER PONG

Minor: Women's Studies in the home economics of underwater basket weaving

In reply to h by So Close

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Manthong DillyDilly Sat, 04/14/2018 - 15:13 Permalink

“Some offer one year programs but no college degree. Good idea?”

The accreditation complex is a racket.

..one needs not be a 4 year college graduate to become successful.

..applied knowledge and ability is becoming the new standard.

In reply to Major: BEER PONG Minor:… by DillyDilly

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truthseeker47 Manthong Sat, 04/14/2018 - 15:18 Permalink

Excellent article; thank you Mish.

In reply to “Some offer one year… by Manthong

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Anarchyteez truthseeker47 Sat, 04/14/2018 - 15:30 Permalink

Mish always does good work on his essays. +++

In reply to Excellent article; thank you… by truthseeker47

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Adolph.H. Anarchyteez Sat, 04/14/2018 - 15:39 Permalink

Students loans are a way to trap people into military service:

http://www.investmentwatchblog.com/student-loans-are-a-way-to-trap-peop…

----

It's okay not to be a Jew.

In reply to Mish always does good work… by Anarchyteez

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RAT005 Adolph.H. Sat, 04/14/2018 - 16:02 Permalink

I see another bug developing. The best kids will be recruited to the intense accelerated program. Good but not best students will now be branded 1 tier down rather than mixing with the top tier at normal university. If a couple thousand per year graduate from the branded toppest tier, they will always have an advantage. It's like Ivy of Ivy league. It pushes mediocre kids who already have trouble working after college, just that much further down the education totem pole.

Not saying anything wrong, but looks like what will benefit top 0.5-1% is going to hurt 20-30% ranking group.

In reply to C by Adolph.H.

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cheech_wizard Manthong Sat, 04/14/2018 - 15:27 Permalink

> The accreditation complex is a racket.

As is the certification racket.

In reply to “Some offer one year… by Manthong

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Consuelo cheech_wizard Sat, 04/14/2018 - 15:49 Permalink

+1

I remember - eh, 25 years ago or so, when I first heard of a certified personal trainer. I literally had to laugh. It was cuck then and it's even more cuck today. The certification industry is perhaps one of the biggest middleman $scams ever perpetrated on society.

In reply to > The accreditation complex… by cheech_wizard

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webmatex Manthong Sat, 04/14/2018 - 16:09 Permalink

I got my hands dirty - had over 100 jobs between 16 and 21 = experience.

Read COBOL Made Simple in 1974 and started 30 year career in IT.

No qualifications - got kicked out of college as they didn't like me.

I was soooo lucky.

Both our daughters wen't to University but we insisted as its still 'almost) FREE here in France.

Wouldn't touch a $40,000 or even £21,000 loan for education but might apply and get a mortage with the money.

In reply to “Some offer one year… by Manthong

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curbjob So Close Sat, 04/14/2018 - 15:12 Permalink

When New York City upgraded the heating systems in all the public schools, 80% of the engineers overseeing the projects were from India and Pakistan; amusing since most had never seen a boiler.

The American contracting firms that had won the bids told me that salary had nothing to do with hiring these H1B1 visa folk, there simply weren't enough American engineers to fill the positions.

Think about that in terms of how well prepared we are for a trade war.

In reply to h by So Close

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lester1 curbjob Sat, 04/14/2018 - 15:20 Permalink

Thats a load of crap. I would like to see what those H1B visa holders are making per hour.

In reply to When New York City upgraded… by curbjob

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DontWorry curbjob Sat, 04/14/2018 - 15:47 Permalink

Of course they said that - they have to say they cant find qualified Americans to qualify for H1B1. No matter what they say its all about wage arbitrage. Don't be such as asshat.

In reply to When New York City upgraded… by curbjob

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DrBrown314 So Close Sat, 04/14/2018 - 15:35 Permalink

You forgot the ever useful Gay, Lesbian and Transgender studies degree.

In reply to h by So Close

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curbjob Ophiuchus Sat, 04/14/2018 - 14:54 Permalink

"Wow! You are a fast reader"

See. sometimes college does pay off.

In reply to Wow! You are a fast reader. by Ophiuchus

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Lumberjack Croesus Sat, 04/14/2018 - 14:53 Permalink

Here is what a Phd says about the costs...It’s outrageous...

https://mobile.twitter.com/ryanmaue/status/980239272484704257

For a masters and PhD program in a science like meteorology, I'd estimate costs of $300K to $500K up to $1M depending upon the location and resources. I calc'ed mine at #GoNoles at $450K including waivers, fellowships, loans, etc.

In reply to Nope by Croesus

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DillyDilly Lumberjack Sat, 04/14/2018 - 15:08 Permalink

I guess that's debatable...

My brother in law has a PhD & it cost him less than the lower of your figures... He's an engineer in metallurgy and has made more than an ample 6 figures a year for the past 20 years...

It's a love/hate for me...

I was with my sister when they met on this kind of vacation shindig where about 40 people were all shacking up in 2 rented beach houses...

I liked him right away, but then none of my other family members did at the start... I was the first to sign off on the marriage, but then everyone else folded in... They all like him now... He's a great dad & good to my sister...

I think I'm the only one who now understands that his work (why he makes so much money), is because all the MIC like Lockheed, Grumman, etc. buy his work & research...

So naturally, I never talk about any of it... mosley would probably love him and right now has his abacus out figuring out the windfall of engineering more tomahawks that actually MISS the interceptors next time... Me? I'm just thinking that tomorrow is April 15th...

THE RED PILL SUCKS

In reply to Here is what a Phd says… by Lumberjack

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Lumberjack DillyDilly Sat, 04/14/2018 - 15:18 Permalink

Those are practical degrees and can pay off handsomly. The same cannot be said for liberal arts etc...

In reply to I guess that's debatable... … by DillyDilly

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DillyDilly Lumberjack Sat, 04/14/2018 - 15:21 Permalink

You're right about that... The pay is great... The application of that is somewhat bittersweet as you might imagine...

In reply to Those are practical degrees… by Lumberjack

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thinkmoretalkless Croesus Sat, 04/14/2018 - 15:36 Permalink

Simple answer: No

In reply to Nope by Croesus

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Aubiekong Sat, 04/14/2018 - 14:50 Permalink

For 80% of the high school graduates, NO college is a complete waste of time and money, they simply lack the brain power and the preparatory education needed to get anything out of it.

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brushhog Aubiekong Sat, 04/14/2018 - 15:01 Permalink

That was true in my case. I was a b or c student and my parents pushed college HARD. I went and got a useless economics degree that I can use to calculate how much money and opportunity I lost getting it. I would have been MUCH better off following my gut and going into a trade....that path made sense to me. I should have ignored my parents and done what I knew was the better move.

Oh well, I wont make the same mistake with my son. Unless he is an A student with a strong interest in a college career path, it'll be trade school, learning a skill that can actually be of some use to him.

In reply to For 80% of the high school… by Aubiekong

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snblitz Aubiekong Sat, 04/14/2018 - 15:16 Permalink

Randy Wigginton asked me if I wanted to be the the 8th employee of Apple Computer, Inc.

I turned him down informing him I was going away to college.

In reply to For 80% of the high school… by Aubiekong

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Deep Snorkeler Sat, 04/14/2018 - 14:51 Permalink

A college education is not given to you.

You have to grab it and energetically process it.

Self-education is a daily requirement - an absolute for survival.

An absence of education is nihilism.

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curbjob Deep Snorkeler Sat, 04/14/2018 - 15:01 Permalink

The war is lost I'm afraid.

The morons are running things now with predictable results

In reply to A college education is not… by Deep Snorkeler

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Deep Snorkeler curbjob Sat, 04/14/2018 - 15:09 Permalink

You may be correct. I am afraid that Americans are too far gone:

1. they suffer from the effects of long term anesthesia

2. reading and spelling are too difficult

3. over the last year, IQs have dropped dramatically

4. they will not pass screening for the Mars Colony

5. America, an entire nation in a big TV trance

In reply to The war is lost I'm afraid… by curbjob

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Consuelo Deep Snorkeler Sat, 04/14/2018 - 15:27 Permalink

By the pussy no less...

In reply to A college education is not… by Deep Snorkeler

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VWAndy Sat, 04/14/2018 - 14:55 Permalink

If and when this fiat magic spell is broken they will need real world skills. If not they might end up as biodiesel.

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ExPat2018 Sat, 04/14/2018 - 14:55 Permalink

Learn a trade,,,,,

I have High school diploma (1964) and have made over 4 million in my lifetime flying around world wide.

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HRH of Aquitaine 2.0 Sat, 04/14/2018 - 14:55 Permalink

Great article. Good advice. Most snotflakes don't need to go to college. Many will never graduate and the debt will be with them for life (unless they become disabled, that is the only way to discharge student loan debt). If a student, or their parents, can pay for their four-years at university, fine. If not? Time to tell these kids, and their parents, to figure something out.

Medical trades are excellent, such as ultrasound tech, CT scan tech, MRI tech, X-ray tech, lab tech. Most people would do better becoming a nurse practioner or physician's assistant rather than going to med school.

HVAC tech, plumbing, electrician, finish carpenter: there are good trades out there for people that are smart and willing to be an apprentice, too.

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MATA HAIRY Sat, 04/14/2018 - 14:55 Permalink

hang all college professors and guidance counselors

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besnook Sat, 04/14/2018 - 14:56 Permalink

you don't need college to make money. all you need to make money is something to sell. college is about learning some knowledge that is saleable, trade school for the mind. there is, otherwise, no difference between the trade school and academic school.

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Lumberjack Sat, 04/14/2018 - 15:01 Permalink

#Cancel the contract!

GOP Congressmen Target Citibank’s $700 Billion Contract Over ‘Anti-Second Amendment Policies’

http://amp.dailycaller.com/2018/04/12/congress-citibank-contract-guns/

Sixteen Republican congressmen are asking the General Services Administration (GSA) to reevaluate a $700 billion contract with Citibank as a result of the the financial institution’s “anti-Second Amendment policies.”

The congressmen, led by Indiana Rep. Todd Rokita, sent a letter to GSA Administrator Emily Murphy on Wednesday, asking her to terminate the contract in response to Citibank’s March announcement restricting its clients participation in gun sales.

“In 2017, the General Services Administration (GSA) awarded Citibank a contract of more than $700 billion to partially implement the federal charge card program, SmartPay 3,” the congressmen wrote in the letter, a copy of which was obtained by The Daily Caller News Foundation.

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_ConanTheLiber… Sat, 04/14/2018 - 15:02 Permalink

Very cool that this Rachel girl likes to be a car mechanic.

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VWAndy _ConanTheLiber… Sat, 04/14/2018 - 15:14 Permalink

Not the best trade for young girls to get into. Too many toxic compounds for her to have children in my opinion. That and she will be competing with illegals. Wages in that industry have been pretty much flat for twenty years now.

Crane operators is a better trade for young girls. They excel at it too. Forklifts also.

In reply to Very cool that this Rachel… by _ConanTheLiber…

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Abbie Normal _ConanTheLiber… Sat, 04/14/2018 - 15:34 Permalink

Raelee, it's great that you want to be a diesel mechanic but look around and see how many are still doing that in their 40s or older. Because that's about how long the body can go before repetitive stress injury sets in. Do yourself a favor and find a second career before then.

In reply to Very cool that this Rachel… by _ConanTheLiber…

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VWAndy Abbie Normal Sat, 04/14/2018 - 15:50 Permalink

Yep back issues by 35 is the norm. Boobs would only make it worse.

In reply to Raelee, it's great that you… by Abbie Normal

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Cluster_Frak Sat, 04/14/2018 - 15:12 Permalink

hacking and web security. either side you chose, you shall make money.

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Readysetgo Sat, 04/14/2018 - 15:12 Permalink

One can't generalize about whether or not someone should go to college. There are too many variables involved per individual: current economic status, intelligence, access to scholarships, planned path of study and career, etc. But I do think it's safe to say that too many people assume they need to go to college when in fact they probably shouldn't. And here's a good interview with a professor who says that 80% of school is a waste: https://degreeornotdegree.com/is-80-of-school-a-waste-dr-bryan-caplan-m…

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Consuelo Readysetgo Sat, 04/14/2018 - 15:40 Permalink

+1

Mr. Caplan has been on the Tom Woods show a few times - very informative. I myself have had a notion for a few decades that school-as-we-know-it was at the very least, 'odd' and those same thoughts have evolved more towards the notion of educational retardation, if not outright detrimental to one's furtherance in the large sense. I maintain that one of the biggest 'revolutions' we will see in the future, is how people become educated. We're seeing the very beginnings of this now. We will look back at this in time as 'wasted time' - not that all learned in university was a waste, but that the amount of time spent was wasteful - and highly inefficient.

In reply to One can't generalize about… by Readysetgo

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83_vf_1100_c Sat, 04/14/2018 - 15:13 Permalink

Where was Raelee when I was wife shopping? A personal mechanic who can throw me pussy covers a big part of my dreams. She needs to tie that hair back or just go short if she plans on being safe.

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BT Sat, 04/14/2018 - 15:15 Permalink

Yes, IF you got some, and especially mom and dad paid for it!

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Catullus Sat, 04/14/2018 - 15:15 Permalink

We've been shunning the trades because they're male-dominated. And it's a war on men. Watch what happens if men left corporate jobs.

Plus Marxist professors need idiots to recruit in college. That's where they find them. That's why the activist disciplines are pushing to be prerequisites. Recruitment

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Mazzy Catullus Sat, 04/14/2018 - 15:33 Permalink

But Men ARE leaving those corporate bullshit jobs. Why work in a stifling office full of estrogen (from both women and soyboys), backstabbing, and emotional claims to some petty hierarchy when you can make just as much or more money by producing real value out in the real world? Why push paper and punch keys on a keyboard all day?

Granted, with women becoming CEO's more and more and entering positions of upper management more frequently we're going to see a lot more corporations getting brought to their knees because of petty office politics alone.

In reply to We've been shunning the… by Catullus

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Consuelo Mazzy Sat, 04/14/2018 - 15:43 Permalink

+1 and +another 1...

Don't think I could have put together a description of the zeitgeist you pointed out any better...

In reply to But Men ARE leaving those… by Mazzy

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Obamanism666 Sat, 04/14/2018 - 15:17 Permalink

Is College Worth The Cost? Short Answer is 'NO', Long answer 'HELL! NO'

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pawn Sat, 04/14/2018 - 15:22 Permalink

Hey I came from teaching (k-12) professional certified in 70's paid like sh+T. School district stopped shop anything vocational. Rich people don't go 4 sense/cent's.

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lester1 Sat, 04/14/2018 - 15:23 Permalink

Join the military at 18. Serve your country, see the world, learn a skill, and be debt free when you get out. Free college too.

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