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Bernd 06/06/2019 (Thu) 12:49:43 [Preview] No. 26974
What does bernd think about the way translation technology is improving? Will it be a good thing or a bad thing for the world? Will learning more than 1 language become pointless?


Bernd 06/06/2019 (Thu) 13:17:58 [Preview] No.26976 del
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that image gave me a feel


Bernd 06/06/2019 (Thu) 15:43:19 [Preview] No.26978 del
No worry.
First translating something from German to English or vice versa while sometimes was weird it was understandable already. If we take a step further, translate something English-Slavic, it gets funkier. But for something liek Finnish or Hungarian (not to mention Chinese) their translation still lacks, sometimes little less but sometimes a lot.
And then if I know a foreign language, I hear or read it I understand it instantly while translating it with an application will cause delay. In some situations it's unacceptable.
Or it doesn't help if I want to enjoy a foreign movie. Ok, in that case I can choose subtitles, which even can be generated on the run sometimes (on youtube they try to implement this feature) but it distracts from the imagery of the movie/video.
Also there can be situations when the user just can use his/her hands. Then what? Ok maybe voice commands can be translated which even might be ok if the thing to be translated is in voice but if I had to read something in a foreign language I don't know how to pronounce for the translator it will lead to unusable translations.


Bernd 06/06/2019 (Thu) 21:49:15 [Preview] No.26997 del
What about literature? Only a human translator can carry over not just the meaning but also its subtleties across the linguistic barrier, and even then it's an imperfect process and reading in the original is the optimal experience. Doubly so for poetry, which is nigh impossible to translate without losing rhyme, metre, alliteration and so on.

And English will still be learned simply because of its overwhelming presence.


Bernd 06/07/2019 (Fri) 10:32:20 [Preview] No.27005 del
>>26978
>if I had to read something in a foreign language I don't know how to pronounce for the translator it will lead to unusable translations.
I think the point of these things is mostly for basic communication, so it would likely be the foreign guy pronouncing it rather than you. Films would probably have similar problems to what Brazilanon talked about, but I guess it would be fine for basic things like action flicks and such.
>>26997
In that case, couldn't learning a language be seen as more of a hobbyist or academic activity rather than a necessity? The average person probably has no interest in reading foreign books or poetry. On the other hand, for those who need to learn a language solely for communication such as politicians and businessmen this technology could possibly remove their need to learn other languages (or to pay human interpreters). And it's already pretty usable for people like tourists who just need basic communication.
>And English will still be learned simply because of its overwhelming presence.
I was wondering myself whether this technology, if improved enough, could remove the need completely for a lingua franca. But there is so much English media (and foreign media translated to English) that it would probably still be learned simply for convenience.


Bernd 06/07/2019 (Fri) 13:43:27 [Preview] No.27008 del
sometimes you need adaptation, not translation
cuz brainlets won't get it


Bernd 06/07/2019 (Fri) 14:01:41 [Preview] No.27009 del
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>>27008
t. American animu translator from the 90s


Bernd 06/07/2019 (Fri) 15:37:32 [Preview] No.27013 del
>>27005
Well most people don't learn a language anyway. So...


Bernd 06/08/2019 (Sat) 15:01:43 [Preview] No.27021 del
It's really a cool thing. I thought it's never going to profess in my lifetime. I thought the Chinese translation is still miles away. They always tell me that European languages worked like magic but the Chinese I saw were not usable. But now I can't find anything wrong with it.
I don't think there is much I can do about it. In the past people used to come to me to ask about English translation. Now everyone just google for themselves.

I feel the technology isn't in my control. I feel it's someone else's achievement. I used to think about letting most people learn a second language so we can talk to foreigners. But now I see that it's too slow and hard so it will never work. The world doesn't need second language they need translation.

As of the subtlety of language, I don't think I have it anyway. I think most people just want something for their quick needs. They just want something that works 24/7. They don't need a literary lesson


Bernd 06/08/2019 (Sat) 17:05:46 [Preview] No.27023 del
>>27021
>I thought the Chinese translation is still miles away.
That's my assumption too.
>But now I can't find anything wrong with it.
That's really surprising. I have to look into the Hungarian translations then. I know there are still some very particular problems but can't remember if tried to translate a whole text.


Bernd 06/08/2019 (Sat) 19:04:11 [Preview] No.27024 del
>>27023
maybe machine learning can one day translate the mysterious secret behind the mongol languages that us non-mongols can't comprehend


Bernd 06/09/2019 (Sun) 06:32:48 [Preview] No.27030 del
>>27024
Google translate use machine learning? That would explain some oddities. Maybe.
One error I know that it damn sure exist that G-translate can't differentiate between a and á which is very much not egal. Most notably these "pairs" are problematic:
bal - bál (left as in the opposite of right - party)
szar - szár (shit - stalk as in the stem of a plant)
And if they develop it with machine learning - users can correct the translations - it might be reasonable to assume the problem comes from this fact. I think very, very few Hungarians can be bothered to correct this mistake, since these words are very easy and those who have to resort to translation aren't those types who would correct it, probably they don't even know how to.
But those foreigners who have translate back and forth with Hungarian... is a continuously growing group who are probably aware of the correction feature but lack the á key on their hardware and most likely has no real idea about the difference between the a and á sounds.


Bernd 06/09/2019 (Sun) 06:44:03 [Preview] No.27031 del
>>27030
Eh.
Checked it and it's not actually how I imagined.
So they translate from Hungarian to English:
szar - shit (correct)
szár - shit, stalk, stem (incorrect, correct, correct)
bal - ball (incorrect, it's left)
bál - ball (correct, if it's party, "a formal social gathering", but not as a round object, for example for kicking, as in football)
What's more curious, they translate left as:
balra = to the left
baloldali = the one on the left side, can be left-wing as in politics
otthagyott = the past tense of leave
balfelőli = the one from the left side
baloldal = left side
bal kéz = left hand
But no literal translation to bal. Which would be the only correct answer (beside the past tense of leave).
I wonder what other peculiarities this application has.


Bernd 06/09/2019 (Sun) 07:59:43 [Preview] No.27032 del
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back in the day google translated the word 'yandex' to 'rambler' (2nd most popular search engine at the time, rambler.ru)


Bernd 06/09/2019 (Sun) 09:07:07 [Preview] No.27033 del
>>27032
Nice banter.


Bernd 06/10/2019 (Mon) 14:56:50 [Preview] No.27098 del
Trying to gather the lyrics for this great song >>27048 both in Cyrillic and Latin transliteration with a phonetic Hungarian pronunciation "crutch". I'm aware that there are Cyrillic-Latin transliteration websites online but Mongol Cyrillic has two differing characters and I don't mind to type the thing at least I learn something out of it.
As a byproduct I gain some funny English translations too. I don't think Google is up to all tasks.


Bernd 06/10/2019 (Mon) 21:40:27 [Preview] No.27110 del


Bernd 06/10/2019 (Mon) 22:18:08 [Preview] No.27111 del
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>translation technology is improving? Will it be a good thing or a bad thing for the world? Will learning more than 1 language become pointless?

Even real humans with experience often may struggle with translation. Oh, sometimes you can't really understand person with your native language, especially if he is crazy or just drunk.

Of course some basic everyday things could be translated properly.

Considering learning, there are many theories about different thinking patterns for different languages (for example, Sapir–Whorf hypothesis), and plenty of studies that show specific traits of bilingual people. So, learning languages is pretty good even when you have computer translations.

Maybe in far-far future, when translation chip will be implanted in brain and will stream sentences as abstract thoughts... but humanity may simply go extinct before.


Bernd 06/11/2019 (Tue) 12:15:38 [Preview] No.27124 del
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>>27111
Is this the ebin translations threda now?


Bernd 06/11/2019 (Tue) 15:31:31 [Preview] No.27135 del
>>27111
Establishment of lost books is important.
>there are many theories about different thinking patterns for different languages
I subscribe to these ideas. Ofc not long ago Hungarian media ridiculed them, it's kinda incompatible with the now mainstream thought that everything is equal, uniform and social construct anyway.
>translation chip will be implanted in brain
I'm gonna wait out the bioware version.

>>27124
Kek.


Bernd 06/12/2019 (Wed) 13:27:58 [Preview] No.27154 del
I was once imagining a world when everyone in Taiwan knows English.
I imagined it must be a different country. It cannot be not just the same signs everywhere with English added below. Because the process required for teaching every person I ever know can only be a Singaporean-styled education. It can only be done when the whole school system and the whole state and society are changed

But I now know I was wrong. It will be a smartphone or smart eyeglass service that instantly translates every signs in view into English for the users. So the English users will come before all locals learn English.


Bernd 06/12/2019 (Wed) 15:30:18 [Preview] No.27159 del
>>27154
>instantly translates every signs in view into English for the users. So the English users will come before all locals learn English.
Hah, this true! Americans in Silicon valley are gonna have these first.



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