This issue could be discussed within the Endware thread, it doesn't need a new thread.

I hold copyright over the files and have given freedoms to do what is said in the license (Run, Copy, Modify, Share, Sell, Bundle etc. ) .

The only thing that I seriously prohibit is someone claiming that they made it and then close sourcing it and patenting the technology. I might show up to court to challenge that, and I wouldn't need lawyers to back me up.

Which clause wouldn't be enforceable?

Which clauses do you object to?

Which license are you suggesting that I change it to and why? Which clauses are causing you to be unable to use the software?

How would you prefer me to modify them ?

Do you like the software ? Which software pieces from the suite do you use most often and why? Do you think this software is good enough and useful enough to benefit from a standard free software license? Which would be the best license to apply in your opinion and why?

Thanks for your feedback.

Comparison of free and open source software licenses

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_free_and_open-source_software_licenses

##############################################################################################################################################################################
# LICENSE AGREEMENT
##############################################################################################################################################################################
# BEGINNING OF LICENSE AGREEMENT
# TITLE: THE ENDWARE END USER LICENSE AGREEMENT (EULA)
# CREATION DATE: MARCH 19, 2016
# VERSION: 1.15
# VERSION DATE: JULY 05, 2017
# COPYRIGHT: THE ENDWARE DEVELOPMENT TEAM, 2016-2017
#
# WHAT CONSTITUTES "USE"? WHAT IS A "USER"?
# 0) a) Use of this program means the ability to study, possess, run, copy, modify, publish, distribute and sell the code as included in all lines of this file,
# in text format or as a binary file constituting this particular program or its compiled binary machine code form, as well as the the performance
# of these aforementioned actions and activities.
# 0) b) A user of this program is any individual who has been granted use as defined in section 0) a) of the LICENSE AGREEMENT, and is granted to those individuals listed in section 1.
# WHO MAY USE THIS PROGRAM ?
# 1) a) This program may be used by any living human being, any person, any corporation, any company, and by any sentient individual with the willingness and ability to do so.
# 1) b) This program may be used by any citizen or resident of any country, and by any human being without citizenship or residency.
# 1) c) This program may be used by any civilian, military officer, government agent, private citizen, government official, sovereign, monarch, head of state,
# dignitary, ambassador, legislator,congressional representative, member of parliament, senator, judicial official, judge, prosecutor, lawyer,
# noble, commoner, clergy, laity, and generally all classes and ranks of people, persons, and human beings mentioned and those not mentioned.
# 1) d) This program may be used by any human being of any gender, including men, women, and any other gender not mentioned.
# 1) e) This program may be used by anyone of any affiliation, political viewpoint, political affiliation, religious belief, religious affiliation, and by those of non-belief or non affiliation.
# 1) f) This program may be used by any person of any race, ethnicity, identity, origin, genetic makeup, physical appearance, mental ability, and by those of any other physical
# or non physical characteristics of differentiation.
# 1) g) This program may be used by any human being of any sexual orientation, including heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, asexual, or any other sexual orientation not mentioned.
# 1) h) This program may be used by anyone.
# WHERE MAY A USER USE THIS PROGRAM ?
# 2) a) This program may be used in any country, in any geographic location of the planet Earth, in any marine or maritime environment, at sea, sub-sea, in a submarine, underground,
# in the air, in an airplane, dirigible, blimp, or balloon, and at any distance from the surface of the planet Earth, including in orbit about the Earth or the Moon,
# on a satellite orbiting about the Earth, the Moon, about any Solar System planet and its moons, on any space transport vehicle, and anywhere in the Solar System including the Moon, Mars, and all other Solar System planets not listed.
# 2) b) This program may be used in any residential, commercial, business, and governmental property or location and in all public and private spaces.
# 2) c) This program may be used anywhere.

#IN WHAT CONTEXT OR CIRCUMSTANCES MAY A USER USE THIS PROGRAM?
# 3) This program may be used by any person, human being or sentient individual for any purpose and in any context and in any setting including for personal use, academic use,
# business use, commercial use, government use, non-governmental organization use, non-profit organization use, military use, civilian use, and generally any other use
# not specifically mentioned.
# WHAT MAY A "USER" DO WITH THIS PROGRAM ?
# 4) Any user of this program is granted the freedom to study the code.
# 5) a) Any user of this program is granted the freedom to distribute, publish, and share the code with any neighbor of their choice electronically or by any other method of transmission.
# 5) b) The LICENCSE AGREEMENT, ACKNOWLEDGMENTS, Header and Instructions must remain attached to the code in their entirety when re-distributed.
# 5) c) Any user of this program is granted the freedom to sell this software as distributed or to bundle it with other software or salable goods.
# 6) a) Any user of this program is granted the freedom to modify and improve the code.
# 6) b) When modified or improved, any user of this program is granted the freedom of re-distribution of their modified code if and only if #the user attatchs the LICENSE AGREEMENT
# in its entirety to their modified code before re-distribution.
# 6) c) Any user of this software is granted the freedom to sell their modified copy of this software or to bundle their modified copy with other software or salable goods.
# 7) a) Any user of this program is granted the freedom to run this code on any computer of their choice.
# 7) b) Any user of this program is granted the freedom to run as many simultaneous instances of this code, on as many computers as they are able to and desire, and for as long as they desire and are
# able to do so with any degree of simultaneity in use.
# WHAT MUST A "USER" NOT DO WITH THIS PROGRAM ?
# 8) Any user of this program is not granted the freedom to procure a patent for the methods presented in this software, and agrees not to do so.
# 9) Any user of this program is not granted the freedom to arbitrarily procure a copyright on this software as presented, and agrees not to do so.
# 10) Any user of this program is not granted the freedom to obtain or retain intellectual property rights on this software as presented and agrees not to do so.
# 11) a) Any user of this program may use this software as part of a patented process, as a substitutable input into the process; however the user agrees not to attempt to patent this software as part of their patented process.
# b) This software is a tool, like a hammer, and may be used in a process which applies for and gains a patent, as a substitutable input into the process;
# however the software tool itself may not be included in the patent or covered by the patent as a novel invention, and the user agrees not to do this and not to attempt to do this.

# WHO GRANTS THESE FREEDOMS ?
# 12) The creators of this software are the original developer,"Endwall", and anyone listed as being a member of "The Endware Development Team", as well as ancillary contributors, and user modifiers and developers of the software.
# 13) The aforementioned freedoms of use listed in sections 4),5),6),and 7) are granted by the creators of this software and the Endware Development Team to any qualifying user listed in section 1) and
# comporting with any restrictions and qualifications mentioned in sections 2), 3), 8), 9), 10) and 11) of this LICENSE AGREEMENT.
# WHAT RELATIONSHIP DO THE USERS HAVE WITH THE CREATORS OF THE SOFTWARE ?
# 14) This software is distributed "as is" without any warranty and without any guaranty and the creators do not imply anything about its usefulness or efficacy.
# 15) If the user suffers or sustains financial loss, informational loss, material loss, physical loss or data loss as a result of using, running, or modifying this software
# the user agrees that they will hold the creators of this software, "The Endware Development Team", "Endwall", and the programmers involved in its creation, free from prosecution,
# free from indemnity, and free from liability, and will not attempt to seek restitution, compensation, or payment for any such loss real or imagined.
# 16) If a user makes a significant improvement to this software, and if this improvement is included in a release, the user agrees not to seek remuneration or payment
# from the creators of this software or from Endwall or from the Endware Development Team, for any such work contribution performed, and the user understands
# that there will be no such remuneration or payment rendered to them for any such contribution.
# END OF LICENSE AGREEMENT

##################################################################################################################################################################################
# ADDITIONAL NOTES:
# 17) If a user finds a significant flaw or makes a significant improvement to this software, please feel free to notify the original developers so that we may also
# include your user improvement in the next release; users are not obligated to do this, but we would enjoy this courtesy tremendously.
#
# 18) Sections 0) a) 0) b) and 1) a) are sufficient for use; however sections 1) b) through 1) h) are presented to clarify 1 a) and to enforce non-discrimination and non-exclusion of use.
# For example some people may choose to redefine the meaning of the words "person" "human being" or "sentient individual" to exclude certain types of people.
# This would be deemed unacceptable and is specifically rejected by the enumeration presented. If the wording presented is problematic please contact us and suggest a change,
# and it will be taken into consideration.
#################################################################################################################################################################################

>>1172
>The only thing that I seriously prohibit is someone claiming that they made it and then close sourcing it and patenting the technology.
What in Endware do you think is patentable?

>I might show up to court to challenge that, and I wouldn't need lawyers to back me up.
Why, are you a patent lawyer?

>Which clause wouldn't be enforceable?
>Which clauses do you object to?
If you want your software to be usable by everyone, say that, and just that. If you want your software to be usable everywhere, say that, and just that. By trying to create all of these silly, specific, pseudo-exhaustive lists, you open yourself up to the argument that if you left something out, it was intentional. For example:

>This program may be used by any living human being, any person, any corporation, any company, and by any sentient individual
You list corporation AND company. Gotta be thorough! But you left out partnerships. And sole proprietorships. If you went to the trouble of listing both corporation AND company, in addition to just saying "everyone", but you left out other business types, was there a reason for that?

Also, "sentient individual". Philosophers can't agree on what sentience is. Is there even a legal definition? And you only consider sentient individuals. What about sentient group-consciousnesses? Why wouldn't a "sentient individual" be considered part of "everyone"?

>This program may be used by any citizen or resident of any country, and by any human being without citizenship or residency.
Redundant garbage. Why not "This program may be used by anyone"?

>This program may be used by any civilian, military officer, government agent, private citizen, government official, sovereign, monarch, head of state, dignitary, ambassador, legislator,congressional representative, member of parliament, senator, judicial official, judge, prosecutor, lawyer, noble, commoner, clergy, laity, and generally all classes and ranks of people, persons, and human beings mentioned and those not mentioned.
Again, why not just "everyone"? You mention military officers, but not enlisted personnel and NCOs. Guess they can't use your software. You mention lawyers, but not paralegals. Guess paralegals can't use your software. After all, if you wanted to allow everyone to use your software, you'd have just said "everyone". "Everyone" would have been perfectly clear, until you started with your obnoxious lists. But then you got specific. You're clearly contrasting "laity" with "clergy", but to be "laity", you have to be a lay-member of a religion. I guess those without religious affiliation can't use your software. What if they're believers, but aren't officially enrolled members of a church? Do they get a pass?

>This program may be used in any country, in any geographic location of the planet Earth, in any marine or maritime environment, at sea, sub-sea, in a submarine, underground, in the air, in an airplane, dirigible, blimp, or balloon,
You list all these vehicles, but not a car? Can't I use the software in a car? What about a bus? If I can use it anywhere, why not just say "anywhere"? Once again, your failed attempt at cleverness and exhaustiveness has resulted in nothing but questions as to your omissions.

>Any user of this program is granted the freedom to distribute, publish, and share the code with any neighbor of their choice electronically or by any other method of transmission.
What constitutes a "neighbor"? That's not a term with a defined legal meaning, and to the extent that it has one, it's not what you seem to think it means. I can't share the code with someone in another country? They're not my neighbor. Or do you mean it in a metaphorical sense? Legal documents are probably a bad place for metaphors.

>Any user of this program is granted the freedom to modify and improve the code.
You say modify AND improve, not modify OR improve. I can only modify it if I improve it? What if you think my changes make it worse? Who decides? You? I guess I'm in violation of the license, then.

>Any user of this pro

>>1172
>Any user of this program is granted the freedom to run this code on any computer of their choice.
I can run it on other people's computers without their permission!? Nice!

Etc.

As far as I can tell after plowing through this gobbledygook, there's no right your license grants that wouldn't be adequately covered by an existing open source license.

It was a waste of time for you to write this license, and it was a waste of my time to read it and write this response. I *think* your intentions in writing this license were noble. Unfortunately, the outcome was idiotic.

>>1183

Redundant garbage. Why not "This program may be used by anyone"?

# 1) h) This program may be used by anyone.

You're clearly contrasting "laity" with "clergy", but to be "laity", you have to be a lay-member of a religion. I guess those without religious affiliation can't use your software. What if they're believers, but aren't officially enrolled members of a church? Do they get a pass?

# 1) e) This program may be used by anyone of any affiliation, political viewpoint, political affiliation, religious belief, religious affiliation, and by those of non-belief or non affiliation.

You list all these vehicles, but not a car? Can't I use the software in a car? What about a bus? If I can use it anywhere, why not just say "anywhere"?

# 2) c) This program may be used anywhere.

You clearly either can't read or have a poor memory and poor attention to detail.

I see your point in general. However enumerating who you allow to use your software is not a an enumeration of those you exclude. You fail at logic, on this point as well.

>>1184

>Any user of this program is granted the freedom to run this code on any computer of their choice.
I can run it on other people's computers without their permission!? Nice!

Certain software licenses specify which computers you are allowed to run software on, I allow you to run my software on which ever computer you choose to run it on. Now if you're breaking the law (doing so without the computer owner's permission ) that has nothing to do with my copyright grant to you. You fail at logic and at law.

The enumerations presented were examples and are not meant to be exhaustive, however they were meant to be funny. And also as explained in line 18:

# 18) Sections 0) a) 0) b) and 1) a) are sufficient for use; however sections 1) b) through 1) h) are presented to clarify 1 a) and to enforce non-discrimination and non-exclusion of use.
# For example some people may choose to redefine the meaning of the words "person" "human being" or "sentient individual" to exclude certain types of people.
# This would be deemed unacceptable and is specifically rejected by the enumeration presented. If the wording presented is problematic please contact us and suggest a change,
# and it will be taken into consideration.


# 1) h) This program may be used by anyone.
# 2) c) This program may be used anywhere.


>The only thing that I seriously prohibit is someone claiming that they made it and then close sourcing it and patenting the technology.
What in Endware do you think is patentable?

Nothing yet, but you never know, I might cook something up next week that qualifies.

>I might show up to court to challenge that, and I wouldn't need lawyers to back me up.
Why, are you a patent lawyer?

I'm the creator, inventor, originator, and copyright holder over all of the files, and I can prove all of that in several ways.

Your complaints that you have brought up are now dismissed, the summary is that you have reading comprehension and memory retention problems.

I'll deal with more of your complaints later if I feel like it.

>>1185
>The enumerations presented were examples and are not meant to be exhaustive, however they were meant to be funny.
For your own sake, and the public's, don't quit your day job to pursue a career in comedy writing.

>Your complaints that you have brought up are now dismissed,
You did not address the majority of my points, and those you did address you did not seem to fully understand and did not address adequately. Your dismissal is dismissed.

>I'll deal with more of your complaints later if I feel like it.
Don't bother. I've read enough of your idiocy, and I don't feel like wasting any more time educating the ineducable owner of a dead board. I won't be back to read your further ramblings.

It's a moot point, because it would be a minor miracle if more than a half dozen people or so ever use your software (or even become aware of it), so your ridiculous license doesn't really matter, but if you ever have the chance to run it by a lawyer, you should. After he gets done laughing, explain that it's not a joke. At this point, you'll need to ignore the look of pity on his face and explain that you're not mentally retarded, either. Then you can let him explain why your license is such a piece of shit.

>>1186

>You did not address the majority of my points, and those you did address you did not seem to fully understand and did not address adequately. Your dismissal is dismissed.

You lied and said that "Why didn't you say X instead?", when I had done that exact thing in the next line of my license. You used this strategy 3 times, and I pointed out all three times and the exact line where I included EVERYONE, EVERYWHERE, and those of non belief etc.

So you lied to win an argument you started. That would be plain to anyone who reads the thread, reads my license and then reads my response to your tactic.

>It's a moot point, because it would be a minor miracle if more than a half dozen people or so ever use your software (or even become aware of it), so your ridiculous license doesn't really matter,

https://github.com/endwall2/endware/stargazers

I count 15. But from reading my hidden service logs I think its somewhat higher than that.

I have to go to school now, and I'm busy until Thursday with quizzes and assignments, I'll address the remainder of your other points then, for my edification. I may revise the license after that and update it to remedy anything I feel needs to be changed. Thank you for your input.

>>1186

Your main argument is that by enumerating lists of people and that I include as being users, I am excluding those that I do not list.

I simply don't agree with your logic.

Especially in the case of the clauses where I include the line EVERYONE, ANYWHERE, and in ANY CONTEXT OR CIRCUMSTANCE. It would be clear from those lines that I meant everyone, anywhere and in any context or circumstance.

So there is redundancy, but so what.

I'm thinking that I'm taking the wrong approach to dealing with this issue.

1) The customer is always right.
2) What do I want the license to do for me and for the customer?
3) Is there an existing license that accomplishes these goals?
4) If not how can I modify the current license or an existing FOSS license to give the customer what they want, while accomplishing what I want to accomplish?
5) What are the unique properties of my current license that I wish to preserve in a future license?

I will contemplate these bullet points and collect and compile relevant information.

One approach would be to remove all of the SJW content and simplify the license, and release a forked simplified Endware License. This approach would probably meet the criteria of removing redundancy, and make most people satisfied by removing the SJW pseudo-political messaging. I'll start this work next month after exams are over, when I have more free time. I'll keep track of these investigations in this thread.

>You list corporation AND company. Gotta be thorough! But you left out partnerships. And sole proprietorships. If you went to the trouble of listing both corporation AND company, in addition to just saying "everyone", but you left out other business types, was there a reason for that?

I listed living human beings, certain entities (corporations and companies) and sentient individuals. I want to allow people, corporations, businesses and AI (Like the Puppet Master from Ghost in the Shell), and intelligent Aliens, as well as well trained Orangutans and Gorillas to have access to my software. I think I'll add partnerships and sole proprietorships to the list good call!

>Also, "sentient individual". Philosophers can't agree on what sentience is. Is there even a legal definition? And you only consider sentient individuals.What about sentient group-consciousnesses? Why wouldn't a "sentient individual" be considered part of "everyone"?

The Puppet Master from Ghost in the Shell, Advanced Artificial Intelligence systems, Intelligent Aliens, Gorillas, Orangutans, Dolphins and any other animal that can think and use my software and wants to use my software should be included, they're not people, so I use Sentient Individual as a catch all. Corporations aren't living human beings, but are persons, they are entities, so everyone wouldn't catch corporations only the people that work for them. So including corporations was an attempt to add these business entities which are non living legal persons.

1c)his program may be used by any civilian, military officer, government agent, private citizen,... commoner, clergy, laity, and generally all classes and ranks of people, persons, and human beings mentioned and those not mentioned.

That last bold piece covers everyone ( all classes and ranks of people, persons, human beings mentioned and those not mentioned) including Non Commissioned Officers and Enlisted Personnel and is in the same sentence as the rest of it so It would be hard to argue that they weren't included.

> The enumerations presented were examples and are not meant to be exhaustive, however they were meant to be funny.
> For your own sake, and the public's, don't quit your day job to pursue a career in comedy writing.

The part I get a chuckle out of every time I read it is the solar system and space transport vehicles part, I picture Elon Musk reading the license and saying "This is a great license for our project", and then I get a mental image of astronauts on the International Space Station flipping channels on endstream and endtv to pass the time. The rest was meant to be serious.

> What constitutes a "neighbor"? That's not a term with a defined legal meaning, and to the extent that it has one, it's not what you seem to think it means. I can't share the code with someone in another country? They're not my neighbor. Or do you mean it in a metaphorical sense? Legal documents are probably a bad place for metaphors.

This is a valid complaint. I'll change the word neighbor to recipient .

> You say modify AND improve, not modify OR improve. I can only modify it if I improve it? What if you think my changes make it worse? Who decides? You? I guess I'm in violation of the license, then.

This is a valid complaint. I'll remove the word improve. You can freely modify the code and run and distribute the modified code. Improvements are not required, and I won't be the judge. I'll only be the judge of what is released by Endware.

###########

I'm going to make 2 licenses, the first will attempt to rectify some of the complaints by adding and deleting words, and the second will be a simplified license where I delete everything that is redundant and attempt complete generality on the first line of every category.

I'd like to get more opinions about the license than that of just a single user or detractor. Don't we have a resident copyright lawyer? MikeeUSA? Maybe he can help me. Does anyone else have any positive or negative comments about the current license they would like to share? If so feel free to add to the discussion below.

I included government, and legislators to specifically point out that they should protect themselves from unlawful surveillance by the military (NSA, FBI, CIA etc) and corporations (GOOGLE, AMAZON, FACEBOOK, etc) in order to avoid blackmail and coercion, and to focus on strengthening the core institutions of western democratic society (Legislative, Executive, and Judicial branches of government) from attacks by hackers, foreign and domestic military intelligence services, etc.

But to be realistic they probably have proper high end security software and don't need Endware, but maybe they don't, I don't know... I'm sure they have something better. But just in case...

>Any user of this program is granted the freedom to run this code on any computer of their choice.
> I can run it on other people's computers without their permission!? Nice!

Can I run iOS on an Android Phone? or MacOS on regular arbitrary x86 gear?

You can run Endware on any computer architecture you want, and on any hardware device you want to. Including on other people's machines, but you might be breaking the computer misuse laws in doing so, not my copyright license grant.

ME:
1) I grant that the letters A,B,C,D and H have property ZINGER
2) I grant that all roman alphabet letters both upper case and lowercase have property ZINGER

YOU:
But what about L,M,N,O,P, do they have property ZINGER? You must have omitted these for some reason they must Not have property ZINGER!

SOLUTION:

{ A, B, C, D, H } Union (Roman Alphabet) = Roman Alphabet.

L,M,N,O,P are letters in the set Roman Alphabet and hence also have property ZINGER.

QED.

>but if you ever have the chance to run it by a lawyer, you should. After he gets done laughing, explain that it's not a joke. At this point, you'll need to ignore the look of pity on his face and explain that you're not mentally retarded, either. Then you can let him explain why your license is such a piece of shit.

I'm going to bring an HD digital video camera to the meeting and zoom in slowly so that I can catch the moment that the facial expression changes from mirth to sadness then to pity. I'll upload it as a webm onto Endchan or perhaps as an animated gif.