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Literature thread Bernd 01/15/2019 (Tue) 14:28:10 [Preview] No. 22380
I think we had one of these long ago, before the ameriball slide.

I have been looking into ancient literature recently and have a list of two but was hoping Bernd could help bulk up my list:
Epic of Gilgamesh
Beowulf


Bernd 01/15/2019 (Tue) 15:12:20 [Preview] No.22382 del
Some ancient titles I have on my to-read list:
Augustine of Hippo - Confessions and City of God
Thucydides - History of the Peloponnesian War
Herodotus - Histories
Aristotle and Plato - haven't picked titles yet, not sure if other Greek philosophers are really worth to read
Josephus - Antiquities of the Jews
Sun Tzu - Art of War (actually I've read it already)
The list lack in roman literature but aside from Augustine I dont know who to pick.

Other than that last book I've read was Tanith First and Only by Dan Abnett. It's an action book set in warhammer 40k universe. Author is pretty cool and I'll be getting more books from the series.


Bernd 01/15/2019 (Tue) 15:54:41 [Preview] No.22384 del
>>22382
>Tanakh
>All 3 books of Maccabees
>Talmud
>All medieval Kabbalistic teachings
>Communist Manifesto
>Diary of Anne Frank


Bernd 01/15/2019 (Tue) 16:10:48 [Preview] No.22385 del
I'm reading the Zhuangzi right now, it's breddy good. Like most of those old Chinese books I'd recommend an annotated version as the cultural references can become pretty vague at times.


Bernd 01/15/2019 (Tue) 16:35:05 [Preview] No.22387 del
>>22380
Finished Iliad some time ago and was reading Nibelungenlied recently but Icebreaker (by Suvorov) broke in, so I wish to finish that first. Frankly I find Nlied. tedious and the metric makes me go crazy. Would be fine with a poem few strophe long but Nlied. has over 2000. Iliad was also unnecessarily long but at least that had very, very nice depictions of combat (but mostly just personal heroics, but were other details of battles too).


Bernd 01/15/2019 (Tue) 21:23:33 [Preview] No.22423 del
I'm getting into Asimov's Foundation series right now. I love the big picture-centered worldbuilding with history composed of massive, impersonal processes and tendencies spanning centuries and millenia, and this is given great in-universe emphasis.


Bernd 01/16/2019 (Wed) 06:36:46 [Preview] No.22435 del
>>22423
It's a classic.
My problem was that every book features new heroes basically dismissing previous ones just at the time I accustomed to them and became curious of their story, which made me less and less interested in the whole series. I would have favoured few main heroes from one time period who explore and discover the mystery of the Foundation.


Bernd 01/16/2019 (Wed) 11:28:53 [Preview] No.22438 del
>>22380
Lately I've read epic of manas, I can say it's much better than illiad.
Also I've read art of war quite while ago.

Right now I'm reading a book called rising sun victorious, it's a book about how could japan win ww2.


Bernd 01/17/2019 (Thu) 06:46:40 [Preview] No.22458 del
>>22438
Are there other Central Asian epics?
Our national epic was written in the 19th century. Still didn't read, maybe only some lines in high school or in primary.

>>22380
Iliad were already mentioned, then there's Odyssey and the Aeneid.
The Nibelungenlied can be paired up with Edda.


Bernd 01/17/2019 (Thu) 12:09:01 [Preview] No.22459 del
>>22458
The epic of manas is the longest epic in the world, there are people in kırgızistan that are memorizing it.

As for others we have ergenekon, türeyiş, yaradışış and many others, though I dont suggest just giving them a good glance, as on internet shills vandalizing lots of stuff. I dont make research or reads on internet unless I have to.


Bernd 01/17/2019 (Thu) 17:59:19 [Preview] No.22466 del
>>22459
Is there any info when were those written and by whom?

Also this might interest you:
http://mek.oszk.hu/00500/00595/html/epics1.htm#3
A Hungarian epic about Buda and Attila (translated to English) by Arany János, a great writer and poet of ours.
There's another one by Zrínyi Miklós, titled: The Siege of Sziget or The Peril of Sziget, and about this siege:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Szigetv%C3%A1r


Bernd 01/17/2019 (Thu) 20:33:31 [Preview] No.22482 del
>>22466
It's unknown created by whom, it was memorized and it was documented by german türkologist radloff.

I'll read that.

As for siege of zigetvar, I find it very amusing those numbers, drafting 100.000 people both technologically and logistically was impossible for ottomans until early-mid 1800's, not to mention there is no way you can draft so high amount of people due to celali uprisings, considering bulk of army was ethnic Türks. But I digress, I read about it years ago it was nice, I can always show respect to people bravely defending their home, zrinski had a proper soldier's martrydom. Aftermath they also handled it well enough, there was no demonizing or blatantly forging history like balkanites often do.

Also it's mentioned briefly in our history books for highschoolers.


Bernd 01/17/2019 (Thu) 20:58:40 [Preview] No.22484 del
>>22459
>yaradışış
yaradılış*


Bernd 01/17/2019 (Thu) 21:41:30 [Preview] No.22485 del
>>22482
Offtopic: a book of mine (a Hungarian military history book published in the '80s) says the army of the Sultan consisted 42-50 000 regulars and unknown number of irregulars whose number reached some ten thousands.


cont Bernd 01/17/2019 (Thu) 21:45:13 [Preview] No.22486 del
>>22485
Oh, it also says János Zsigmond (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Sigismund_Z%C3%A1polya), the Vlah voivod, the Moldavian voivod and the Crimean Khan were ordered to send troops.


Bernd 01/18/2019 (Fri) 00:15:23 [Preview] No.22488 del
>>22466
I read half of it, my eyes getting tired, I'l' read rest of it tomorrow.

>>22486
most likely correct.


Bernd 01/18/2019 (Fri) 06:30:53 [Preview] No.22490 del
>>22488
No rush. :^)
You can find some notes in the end about some words, places and names. Might be inadequate to some extent.


Bernd 01/20/2019 (Sun) 17:22:22 [Preview] No.22533 del
Also added to my list.
Don Quixote
Dantes inferno
Cantebury tales

Great recommendations itt. Thanks.


Bernd 01/20/2019 (Sun) 17:34:55 [Preview] No.22537 del
>>22533
>Cantebury tales
Isn't those liek mandatory reading materials in high-school on the Small Island?


Bernd 01/20/2019 (Sun) 21:13:22 [Preview] No.22544 del
>>22537
Oh god, I wish. Literally, we studied a book about a retard and black poetry talking about the suffering of blacks. In history we never even learned about the British except to see how they owned slaves and basically raped india.


Bernd 01/21/2019 (Mon) 14:17:48 [Preview] No.22558 del
(56.75 KB 230x212 1493861516753.png)
>>22544
>Literally, we studied a book about a retard and black poetry talking about the suffering of blacks. In history we never even learned about the British except to see how they owned slaves and basically raped india.
So it wasn't just my school? Fuck I hate this shit country.


Bernd 01/21/2019 (Mon) 16:13:14 [Preview] No.22560 del
(36.53 KB 297x322 GottStrafeEngland.jpg)
>>22544
>>22558
Well you should have thought before enslaving others and raping India, perfidious Anglos.


Bernd 01/21/2019 (Mon) 16:16:02 [Preview] No.22561 del
>>22544
https://youtube.com/watch?v=bcKKt8Lvcn4 [Embed]
Is this what they actually teach in England?


Bernd 01/21/2019 (Mon) 16:17:12 [Preview] No.22562 del
>>22544
>>22560
I wish we could learn more about industrial capacity of austro-hungary instead of learning about russian and british military campaigns in highschool.


Bernd 01/21/2019 (Mon) 16:19:22 [Preview] No.22564 del


Bernd 01/21/2019 (Mon) 16:29:14 [Preview] No.22565 del
>>22561
Dawwwww
That's what I do in Tropico 4. Even the music is similar.


Bernd 01/21/2019 (Mon) 17:02:30 [Preview] No.22567 del
(1.08 MB 3000x2015 books.jpg)
This is what a Hungarian student have to should read during his high-school years:

9th grade
Sophocles: Antigone
Homer: Iliad, Odyssey (only some parts)
Bible (some parts)
Dante: Divine Comedy (some parts) (btw I read The Dante Club by Matthew Pearl, not bad)
Cervantes: Don Quijote
Boccaccio: Decameron
Shakespeare: R&J or Hamlet, plus a comedy
Moliére: Tartuffe

10th grade
Voltaire: Candide
Goethe: Faust
Hoffmann: Der goldne Topf
Hugo: Notre-Dame de Paris
Pushkin: Onegin

11th grade
Stendhal: Le rouge et le noir
Balzac: Father Goriot
Flaubert: Madame Bovary
Gogol: The mantle
Dostoevsky: Crime and Punishment
Tostoy: The Death of Ivan Ilyich (tho as if Anna Karenina would be more familiar to me)
Ibsen: A Doll's House (again for me Peer Gynt sounds more familiar)
Chekov: The Seagull (or Uncle Vanya or Three Sisters)

12th grade
Mann: Tonio Kröger, Death in Venice
Kafka: Metamorphosis
Camus: The Myth of Sisyphus
Brecht: Mother Courage
Dürrenmatt: The Physicists

This list is from few years ago and there's some deviation in all schools. Beside what I note here's three other examples what can be on the list:
Rostand: Cyrano de Bergerac
Verne: In Search of the Castaways
Orwell: Animal Farm (we had to read this one)


Bernd 01/21/2019 (Mon) 17:07:47 [Preview] No.22568 del
>>22567
no wonder europeans are so civcucked
i read only two books in school (one voluntary)


Bernd 01/21/2019 (Mon) 17:14:03 [Preview] No.22569 del
>>22568
I preferred to read what I chose by my own will. Tho I read Crime and Punishment and that was nice.
From the list above I missed a lot, tho I read summaries to know what they are about (as most of my classmates did, there was a chance of strict questioning by the teacher), now I don't remember any.


Bernd 01/21/2019 (Mon) 17:20:11 [Preview] No.22570 del
>>22567
Ofc, beside these we had to read bunch of Hungarian stuff too.


Bernd 01/21/2019 (Mon) 20:28:59 [Preview] No.22575 del
>>22570
like, how to make gulyas and renounce trianon?


Bernd 01/21/2019 (Mon) 21:50:13 [Preview] No.22576 del
>>22575
And throat-singing. And steppenigging.
Nah, it's the usual fiction literature like the list above. Epics and novels and such. Some on par with the foreign counterparts, some are even better.


Bernd 01/22/2019 (Tue) 14:27:06 [Preview] No.22587 del
(7.23 KB 230x219 1475448976907.jpg)
>>22567
Damn, Hungarian school is kc tier as fuck.


Bernd 01/22/2019 (Tue) 17:43:24 [Preview] No.22606 del
Here's my current list. "Literature" can mean a bunch of things. I'm going to take it by it's literal definition here, meaning any body of written works, historical or legend, like BO seemed to do here: >>22382
>Norse sagas in general
>Gesta Danorum
>Etymologiae (by Isidore of Seville)
>Shahnameh
>Tarikh iftitah Al-Andalus
Everything else that I haven't read has already been mentioned here by BO.


Bernd 01/22/2019 (Tue) 18:28:29 [Preview] No.22611 del
>>22567
My high school only had us read postmodern garbage.


Bernd 01/22/2019 (Tue) 18:40:15 [Preview] No.22614 del
>>22606
Those sound nice. Read a couple of sagas, and planning more.

>>22587
Yeah the education was model "Prussian way". In the past decades some softening can be seen. Now they put emphasis on the understanding of stuff and not on the knowing data.

>>22611
Life is suffering on the decadent Scandinavia. I don't really understand how can they leave out everything that was part of the road which built our civilization.


Bernd 01/22/2019 (Tue) 19:32:08 [Preview] No.22665 del
(49.51 KB 297x409 1458601448401.jpg)
>>22560
>Gott strafe England!
>he's actually punching Scotland
Really makes you think


Bernd 01/25/2019 (Fri) 17:36:25 [Preview] No.22772 del
>>22665
Germany's other great enemy is France. France's oldest ally is Scotland. Striking both England and France at the same time means striking Scotland.


Bernd 01/26/2019 (Sat) 14:48:41 [Preview] No.22800 del
>>22772
Ruthless and uncompromising efficiency.


Bernd 01/27/2019 (Sun) 03:29:47 [Preview] No.22822 del
>>22382
If you want to read Aristotle and Plato, start with Plato's Republic and Aristotle's Nicomachean Ethics.


Bernd 01/27/2019 (Sun) 11:16:43 [Preview] No.22826 del
>>22822
Thanks Bernd.
Any recommendations on Cicero?


Bernd 01/27/2019 (Sun) 11:22:42 [Preview] No.22827 del
>>22826
Pronounce Cicero the Italian way.


Bernd 01/27/2019 (Sun) 13:02:05 [Preview] No.22833 del
>>22829
Oh, you're from /ca/.
Welcome.


Bernd 01/27/2019 (Sun) 14:44:03 [Preview] No.22834 del
>>22380
You can put on your list the Mahabharata, or at least the Bhagavad Gita.


Bernd 01/27/2019 (Sun) 16:21:52 [Preview] No.22837 del
>>22826
I think the best starting place for Cicero would be De Officiis (On Duties).


Bernd 02/01/2019 (Fri) 21:59:46 [Preview] No.22962 del
Here's a useful one. You can never know.


Bernd 02/01/2019 (Fri) 22:07:57 [Preview] No.22963 del
Hmm. Once there was a site by a Canadian fellow, he was some kind of a nuke war eggsbert, and his site was about this with hard data (e.g. expected fallout dispersion depending on wind, radiation levels and their effects on a human, radiation absorption in different materials etc.), and info what can be expected what to do what not etc. He published all that in a downloadable book too. I can't seem to find it, probably because many details now missing from my mind.


Bernd 02/02/2019 (Sat) 08:36:54 [Preview] No.22965 del
>>22963
I can't find this site. Here, Bernd, have instead an atlas used in secondary schools.


Bernd 02/02/2019 (Sat) 08:37:19 [Preview] No.22966 del
>>22965
History atlas.


Bernd 02/02/2019 (Sat) 10:32:02 [Preview] No.22968 del
(314.21 KB 600x800 fesz-van.jpg)
On this site >>22742 under the link of Economic History Books I found a title for me to widen my horizon about economics: Global Economic History: A Very Short Introduction by Robert Allan. It's on libgen.
Yes it's short and it does seem - for now - that all the info it shares was in our high school books as well. Nevertheless it's gonna be a good summary and refreshing.
When I finish it I chose Fesz van by Bartus László to move on. The topic is a Hungarian sect, the Hit Gyülekezete (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faith_Church,_Hungary) with a focus on the leading preacher, Németh Sándor.
The author himself was a member of this church so he got his stuff from his own experience, but was not just a simple follower but was among the the inner circle of the most prominent members. In his civilian life he was an accomplished investigative journalist worked for several important newspapers.
This church isn't a sinister organization or something, I think the book is more about it's holier-then-thou attitude compared to how things really looked like behind the scenes, the dirt, the corruption, the pettiness, and the leading pastor's Pride, Greed and Anger. The book itself has a humorous, ironic intonation, great many years ago read a few pages and I had a few smiles here and there. I'm looking forward to it.


Bernd 02/02/2019 (Sat) 13:08:01 [Preview] No.22969 del
Reading kitab al-asnam, it's written two centuries after muhammed's exodus. It's about pre islamic arabia, so expect bias, but still it's a nice knowledge source.

https://answering-islam.org/Books/Al-Kalbi/


Bernd 02/02/2019 (Sat) 13:31:38 [Preview] No.22971 del
>>22969
>Yaghuth
>Ya'uq
>Yog-Shothoth


Bernd 03/10/2019 (Sun) 08:32:01 [Preview] No.23655 del
>>22968
Finished this a while ago (now reading a Ray Mears book). It is fairly chaotic in it's structure. It tells a chain of events - some individual, some interconnected - but not entirely in a linear fashion, often jumps back and forth in time. As I said it's the author's experience, his memories of the time he spent in this sect, his impression of people, his rationalization of events. It also holds serious accusations, many can't be proven due lack of evidence, maybe witnesses could be put forward but I don't think they have the will for that. Frankly, if only half of it true - the more innocent half - it's still a grim picture.
Frankly whatever can be told about a sect with a psychopathic leader followed by tens of thousands of fundamentalist believers can be told about the Faith Church. And as malicious.

Their history started back in the '80s, the author follows a decade from about 1989 to 1999. In the beginning the followers were a group of Christians backing liberal ideology working toward the regime change. They opposed both the tyrannical communist system but also the not less tyrannical catholic church (and their imitators the protestant churches). They also saw an intertwining between the historical churches and the conservative political groups, parties, so they supported the liberals - and in time they infiltrated the main liberal party, the SZDSZ, and gained so much influence in it, that they could paralyze the work of the party itself. But this part is at the end of the story of the book.
The writer was/is a religious man, got religious higher education as well, but couldn't find that emotional experience, the feeling of redemption in the historical churches. He found it in this small sect and declares this was the main attractiveness of it in the beginning.


cont. Bernd 03/10/2019 (Sun) 09:04:08 [Preview] No.23656 del
>>23655
The other charming factor was the leading preacher's preaching. He is an uneducated simple provincial bumpkin who barely could/can speak in grammatically correct fashion. But his speeches from the Bible, about the Bible had an elementally captivating power. Until he stopped doing that and started to base his speeches on his own daily life (if guzzled much goose liver he preached temperance, if his wife nagged him much he preached about Jezebel, if he had conflict with a follower he preached about that follower's sin - the preacher couldn't be the sinner ofc - etc).
But with time the leading preacher built up a cult of personality centered around himself and started to break down the will of his immediate followers, held them under emotional terror, and built an inner circle with the only job of execute his will. But this will changed a lot depending on his own fears, general insecurities and his wife's whims. Those in the inner circle were always in constant conflicts with themselves, most had nagging conscious, and also could see the insanity of certain plans and ideas of the leading preacher so one of their job became of managing his ideas and trying to steer it into acceptable directions.
The leading preacher and his wife also built distrust between the members, and between the members and their families. They extracted confessions out of them and used it against them. The wives of the members became informants who ratted out the husbands to the LP's wife who also ordered them to influence their husband's mind in a desired direction. Worth to mention: only men could get hold an office in the strirct hierarchy of the church.
There is the monetary side of things too. They collected tithe. "Into pocket." But also encouraged the believers to donate as much as they could. The fate of hundreds of millions HUF is unknown. They gave jobs to some followers, but either for wage that was barely enough for starvation, or they employed them as voluntary workers for free. In return they said true believers will be rewarded by God and will make them rich - the poor are sinners and should be scorned. This led to the indebtedness of many as they tried to prove to the each other they are well off.
The leading preacher also aspired to lead the country, this is why he sent his men into the SZDSZ which was the only party who tolerated them and they could tolerate. In the party's leadership there were only few "Faithies" but on lower levels there were more and more party soldiers in their colors. And they were the most diligent workers for the liberal party - as long as the leading preacher wished so. And they were controlled with tight reins. "Faithy" representatives of the parliament could be the most busy bees sometimes, but when the leading preacher had no opinion on things or didn't know what to do they were just empty dolls siting on their arses.


cont. Bernd 03/10/2019 (Sun) 09:21:36 [Preview] No.23657 del
>>23656
The leading preacher had other ambitions. He wanted a school and always tried to meddle in it's operation. He wanted a church newspaper than a public one. The first crashed and burnt then the public one degraded into a /pol/-tier tabloid with conspiracy theories and constant sputtering against the catholic church, and prophecies.
Then in late '90s came the new wave. New wave in the preaching. The leading preacher didn't pray to the Holy Spirit anymore - for miracle healings for example - but he sent the Holy Spirit to do his bidding. With this they cultivated mass hysteria among the congregation. Uncontrollable shaking, laughter, crying, kicking, screaming and shit like that. Like in a good American sect.

The book contains all this and more, sprinkled with a good amount of irony and quips. It made me wonder how this church is doing nowadays.


Bernd 03/15/2019 (Fri) 00:05:29 [Preview] No.23738 del
Took a break from Foundation (I'm on the last half of the second book) to read this. I finished it quite fast. At some point in the future I'll make a thread describing it.


15th March - National Holiday Bernd 03/15/2019 (Fri) 18:59:53 [Preview] No.23753 del
This year I decided to show Bernd a look of the literature side of the Revolution and War of Independence of 1848-49. Not at the whole thing just one work. It's The Baron's Sons by Jókai Mór, a historical novel.
Epub related, Bernd also can read it here if he is curious, not too long but not short either:
https://www.literaturebase.com/ebook-34674-The-Barons-Sons-A-Romance-of-the-Hungarian-Revolution-of-1848/

The author (in his full name: Ásvai Jókay Móric) is one of our great writers, his works are studied during school years by every Hungarian, and recognized on international level too. He not just had first hand experience of the Revolution but was among the central figures of it for a while, then he was a chief editor of a main political newspaper. For this book he also used a historical work and articles of the press as a source.
The Barons's Sons was first published in Hungarian in 1869, and the first English edition in 1900. Both romanticist and realist features mingling in this work.
The personal involvement of Jókai in the Revolution makes it unavoidable to view his own side as good and his idealistic leaning makes him paint the morality of his characters dual, black and white, and themselves are stereotyped, tho vacillating supporting characters are also present. The events are grandiose and cataclysmic, in general this is especially true to his battle scenes which are the tales of heroism.
The realism manifests in his genre scenes, the way he presents the everyday life of the characters, especially on the folksier side.
The story runs on several threads with several central figures. Jókai favors much action and movement during the acts, and uses a few plot twists to make things more complicated and exciting. He doesn't treat the antagonists with contempt if it need be he can show the human side of some (tho it is usually a tool to emphasize on the quality of the heroes) but every bad guy/gul meets his/her well deserved fate.
The subject matter, the Revolution and War of Independence is viewed through a fictional family's struggle during the events. And now some spoilers are coming, tho it can be think of it as a teaser too since I this won't be complete.
The baron, the head of the aristocrat Baradlay family, in the title is a "stone hearted man" and he is dying in the beginning of the story due some heart failure. His testament he tries to arrange the future of his wife and three sons in such heartless, very rational and calculating way that after his pass his wife disobeys him and do everything in reverse. While the family has estates on the Hungary they spend part of their life in Wien (since they are aristocrats close to the Court) and the Austrian revolution of 13th March finds them there. Through hardships and adventures they find their way home.
The youngest brother however fell in love an Austrian lady (not sure anymore if she's an aristocrat as well or from a wealthy patrician family). A very rotten one. Her family is close to the Baradlays too and she plays a cruel game with the revolutionaries, while serves the Court purposes. To make matters more difficult the second son is a hussar officer who leads his unit home, but also he was considered a suitor by the lady and now is pursued by the previous suitor who is a cavalry officer in the Habsburg army.
Nevertheless they arrive back home safely, the Hungarian revolution turns into a war of independence. The two older sons participate actively. They participate in a friendly "duel" during the retake of the Buda castle, they lead their own units and race against each other to reach a certain target.
The war fails, the Habsburgs are back, retribution is coming, the responsibles has to be punished, the two older sons' future looks grim. Then the youngest steps up and with his sacrifice he saves his brothers.
At the end the story jumps twenty years and look at the characters of the story how their lives turned out.

A movie adaptation was made in 1965.


Bernd 03/15/2019 (Fri) 19:04:55 [Preview] No.23754 del
>>23738
I'm looking forward to it.



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